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Hi, new member here. Upgrading 104's to AB spec?

 
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angi73
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Joined: 14 Oct 2005
Posts: 3

PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2005 7:21 pm    Post subject: Hi, new member here. Upgrading 104's to AB spec? Reply with quote

I have searched the forum a little, but i would still appreciate some feedback, and would just to say hello to everyone Smile

I recently bought some lovely mint 104's for £85. I'm a 3rd year student and felt like a change/couldnt fit in my normal speakers (pmc gb1's). Drove two hours each way to get them, but it was worth it! I seem to love big old ugly boxes, bought some celestion ditton 44's for £15 once.

I'm absolutely thrilled with them so far, they are really groovy, great fun. I expected the top end to be tailed off/shut in but i was wrong. I am pleasantly surprised with the detail they extract. I love the bass, but do find it a tad too leaden at times.

My main question is, is it worthwhile and easy enough to upgrade my 104's to AB spec. Does this simply involve new crossovers? The bass is a bit kindof, warbley sometimes, any way of reducing that either. I'm presuming that the AB spec has improved midrange? Ideally i would like a complete crossover to replace the existing, does anyone produce these or are they avalable?


Its nice to see that there is still quite a following for KEF drive units/products.

Oh, and P.S, amp is an arcam alpha 10, and alpha 8 cdp with modified external M audio superdac.
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Angus


Last edited by angi73 on Fri Oct 14, 2005 9:48 pm; edited 1 time in total
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David
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Joined: 11 Jun 2003
Posts: 90
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2005 8:09 pm    Post subject: Kef 104 Reply with quote

Hi Angus, I have the 104abs. The aB crossover is available from Wilmslow in England I believe. There is an article on the aB crossover posted on this site. It changed the response in the crossover region. You have to weigh the cost against the amount you spent on the speakers to begin with. Another alternative is to wait till a set of crossovers come up on ebay. They do surface from time to time. If you are happy with them the way they are then just live with them.

Do you have your speakers on stands? You should have the speakers away from the end wall by 2 or 3 feet and that should help clean up the bass.

You have a very good front end and amp, so I don't think you should be having any problems.

One suggestion would be to check the screws on the B200 and T27 and passive to make sure there are no air leaks.

I don't have any problems with wobbly bass at all.

Let us know and welcome to the forum.

David
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terry
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Joined: 22 Apr 2003
Posts: 262
Location: UK

PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2005 8:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fit spikes to tighten up the bass. But sit the spikes on solid surface like concrete floor or heavy and large concrete/marble slab.

Also check that the ABR is in good condition.
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ColinR
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Joined: 31 Jul 2004
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Location: Staffordshire

PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2005 9:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wilmslow Audio and Falcon crossovers will NOT fit on the rear of the 104 plate.

Replacement or refurbishment of the existing crossover requires a certain degree of competence in terms of manual dexterity and soldering, as the leads to the T27 are short.

The midrange should improve when using an aB crossover, as it's function is to tame the rising response of the T27.
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David
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2005 10:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Colin, I thought Wilmslow or Falcon sold the aB crossover. I will do some checking tonight to see if I can find it.

David
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David
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2005 10:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

found this reference on the Falcon Acoustics site near the LS3/5a crossover section.

103aB As above With aB HF section as 104aB systems. PCB7 £20.00

David
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ColinR
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 15, 2005 12:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
103aB As above With aB HF section as 104aB systems. PCB7 £20.00

That's for the Cadenza.

This is the correct Falcon unit.

41. 104aB Network equivalent. But Higher Power handling comps. & P/E caps, (does not fit on switch panel) Tapped inductor uses same colour code. (PCB7) £24.50.

The Wilmslow version is on their "standard 4"*7.5" circuit board btw.

I wonder if Angus would like the pair of KEF 104aB crossovers sitting in my garage?
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angi73
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Joined: 14 Oct 2005
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 15, 2005 12:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the tips guys. Incidentally, the screws were a bit loose, so i gave them a nip up just to be sure. I have them on some stands that were designed for modern speakers, ie, small top plates, a bit precerious, but its all i have at the moment. To be honest, I havent been entirely fair about the bass in that I am in a quite small room and lack of space has made it necessary to put one closer to a corner than i would like, but its a compromise i have to make. I did wonder about additional damping behind the abr, someone mentioned that somewhere.

I did look at the wilslow and falcon site but found it very confusing as to what is what.

Ah, Colin R if you are willing to part with the ab crossovers that would be absolutely superb! That would eliminate any problems with mounting a crossover, and dealing with the short leads to the tweeter.
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angi73
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 15, 2005 12:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have to say though, what does the ab crossover actually bring to the party. How is it different, and how does the sound compare to that of the standard 104. Has anybody heard both.

I don't want to be presumtous and assume that the ab crossover is better/improved, but i thought it was an upgrade that KEF launched. Are they worth bothering with, i suppose maybe you just have to try.

edited; just read the origional kef article http://www.hifiloudspeakers.info/Anatomy/KEFDocuments/KEF104abLeaflet/Kef104abXO.pdf

This site is most usefull. sorry for the silly questions. Still unsure if the ab is an improvement though, searches have bought up the fact that some think it tails off the hf response.
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David
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 16, 2005 5:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If it means anything to you TAS did a review of the 104 way back. I have a copy somewhere. It is just a short note by HP himself. Take that for what it is worth.

On the Plus side

He liked the imaging, and slightly romantic character ofthe speaker.

He didn't like the so called "fiery" quality of the sound near the point of the crossover.

He found the 104 much superior to the Advent, but in those days he was comparing $350 US, which was the 104 price to the Advent which was probably just over $100 in its utility form.

The 104 was the 1st KEF imported to the US according to HP. He had received a note from KEF at the time of printing that they were redesigning the x-over.

Check out the 104aB story and listen and make up your own mind.

On those graphs what are we talking about in terms of the differences between the 104 and 104ab response in db?

Can anyone distinguish 1db? I really don't know.

The fact that they still sell xover kits for these is amazing.

If you enjoy them that is the main thing. Otherwise the 25 GBP doesn't seem like a lot to invest.

David
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