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Celef speaker with FOUR Kef B110's !!!
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pete the bus
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 5:19 pm    Post subject: Celef speaker with FOUR Kef B110's !!! Reply with quote

Hi all,
has anyone ever come across this Celef speaker before?
It has 4 Kef B110's as a bass unit, a 8" ATC midrange, Audax tweeter, and an unknown super tweeter...
Cant find any info anywhere.
Any info very welcome
Peter
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proffski
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 11:24 pm    Post subject: Re: Celef speaker with FOUR Kef B110's !!! Reply with quote

pete the bus wrote:
Hi all,has anyone ever come across this Celef speaker before?It has 4 Kef B110's as a bass unit, a 8" ATC midrange, Audax tweeter, and an unknown super tweeter...Cant find any info anywhere.Any info very welcomePeter


Is there a serial or model number?
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pete the bus
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 11:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No model numbers...
It has a label on the back saying Celef Studio Professional. serial numbers : 009 and 010...
I have put some pictures on photobucket...

http://s62.photobucket.com/albums/h81/pete-the-bus/Celef%20%20Speakers/

I cant find anyone who remembers them, or knows anything about them...it would seem I have something quite rare and unusual...
Peter
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proffski
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 12:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

pete the bus wrote:
No model numbers...It has a label on the back saying Celef Studio Professional.serial numbers : 009 and 010.I have put some pictures on photobucket...
http://s62.photobucket.com/albums/h81/pete-the-bus/Celef%20%20Speakers/I cant find anyone who remembers them, or knows anything about them...it would seem I have something quite rare and unusual...
Peter


Wow, what a weirdo! Notice the Motorola Piezo 'Supertweeter' next to the Peerless? HF unit. I'd like to see the Polar Response for this creation.
Are you sure the 8" driver is ATC? You may have peeked!
Some echoes of the Lancer there, at least the signature of the design is but different units and loading?

Can you gve me the size and are there any ports on the rear of the enclosure?
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ColinR
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 25, 2008 10:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Peerless DT10HFC sounds pretty good with the B110A in my 1975 Celef "minis".

The Motorola KSN 1036 (I have 10 in a box Smile ) was used as the tweeter in a BBC prototype LS3/5a mkII with a B110B isn't a bad driver so I wouldn't worry about polar plots with that Audax tweeter.
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proffski
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 25, 2008 11:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ColinR wrote:
The Peerless DT10HFC sounds pretty good with the B110A in my 1975 Celef "minis". The Motorola KSN 1036 (I have 10 in a box Smile ) was used as the tweeter in a BBC prototype LS3/5a mkII with a B110B isn't a bad driver so I wouldn't worry about polar plots.


Hmm, but put togther Colin, I'll bet it looks most entertaining!
Cancellations, reinforcements, complicated proposition of varied drivers.
I have always hated the sound of Piezo Whatsits, but made some considerable $ and £ convincing some colleagues that they needed them.
Always used crossovers though and NEVER relied on the alleged natural ability of the drivers to ignore out of band signals, which they never did!
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ColinR
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 25, 2008 11:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
but put togther


They were in the Celef PE1 and I cannot remember any bad reviews of that speaker.
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proffski
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2008 11:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

But surely Pete's loudspeakers are not PE1s.

The PE1 Celef looks as I remember it: http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?t=60

And here: http://tinyurl.com/62yjtl

Quite different from the loudspeaker with the four B110s...

Would the full title for the beast as shown on this site by any chance been "Celef Studio Professional Transducer"?
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ColinR
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2008 3:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Celef Studio Professional Transducer


Could well be with the four B110s being replaced by a 12" ATC unit in later versions.

Regarding the position of the treble units Celef favoured the mid, treble, bass alignment in their TOTL designs.

I'm thinking of the RT1 which used a SP1054 as a midrange above the ribbon and ATC bass unit; later models had an ATC driver in place of the KEF driver.
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pete the bus
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 29, 2008 2:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Guys....
Have been having problems logging on...have had to revert to using Internet Explorer as my normal browser (opera) wont let me in...

I'm a little lost with some of your comments re: polar response etc...but I will try to help with descriptions as much as i can.
The Mid-range is ATC - according to Proac when I phoned them.
The Tweeter is Audax (apparently used in a lot of designs at the time).
Super Tweeter I'm not sure about...I've forgotten what Proac told me!!! (But others who have seen the photos recognise it as a Motorola).
And of course 4xKef B110 as a bass unit.
The label on the back says : Celef Studio Professional.
At the bottom of the label it says : Warning : The CELEF STUDIO PROFESSIONAL TRANSDUCER is for high quality programme and should not be used for sinewave testing etc.etc....so maybe this is the forerunner to the 3 unit studio monitor that others have referred to ( Studio Professional Transducer having the initials to Stuart Paul Tylers name).
But didnt the 3 unit model have a Kef B139 driver?
As for being ported at the back...there is a plastic "ring" in the middle of the cabinet which could be a port...its not a completely "open" port like you would normally see, nor is it full of "straws" as seen on another model of theirs...
I will do some more research and get back to you with any more info i can find, and post some more pictures (including the rear of the cabinet showing the "port".
Thanks for your input so far
Peter
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ColinR
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 29, 2008 5:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I'm a little lost with some of your comments re: polar response etc...


Throw a stone into a pond/canal/lake, you get a circular pattern of ripples.

Throw two stones into still water or a moving river and you get a more complex pattern due to wave fronts interfering.

Treat each loudspeaker driver as a stone.

The effect of a polar response is like dipped and main beam headlights, fog lights and those annoying tits who use their driving lights illegally.

You'll get areas of brightness and shadows equating to minima and maxima of sound and areas somewhere in between.

You want to be sitting in the "sweet spot" where you get a precise stereo image.

Tweeters mounted next to each other with a midrange above is not a topology that lends itself to an even polar response, but Celef probably got it right, do tell Smile .

Quote:
ported at the back...there is a plastic "ring" in the middle of the cabinet which could be a port...its not a completely "open" port like you would normally see, nor is it full of "straws"


Could be a variovent of some kind, but not quite a'la Scan-Speak with a fixed nature.

More along the lines of a telescopic reflex port, adjust, then put a nail through it to lock it in position.
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Last edited by ColinR on Fri Aug 29, 2008 5:51 pm; edited 1 time in total
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proffski
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 29, 2008 5:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As I have said previously, it looks like no PE1 I have ever seen.
Here is what I remember the PE1 as:
http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii114/jandl100/CelefPE1.jpg

The 'port' mystery deepens, could it be one of those 'Acoustic Resistance' units?

The description almost fits that in my Hi-Fi Yearbooks but not quite.
In the 1978 edition we have the following.

"Celef Studio Professional Transdcer."

Special damped tapering bass chamber with rear resistive reflex loading.
Impedance: 8 ohms.
Power Handling 100W.
Frequency Response: 20-20,000Hz.
Crossover: 250Hz and 5kHz.
Size: 31 x 14 x 15 inches.
Weight: 80lb.

So, we have a few discrepancies here, yet all other books have the same description.
Nothing to match your picture of the unit with the ATC on top and the four B110s on the bottm.
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ColinR
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 29, 2008 6:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Audax tweeter will have a datecode.
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pete the bus
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 29, 2008 6:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have posted a picture of the back of the cabinet on the above link to my photobucket site. Dims of the cabinet are H:30 W:14 D:15 (approx)

There is also some more info on this link:

http://www.pinkfishmedia.net/forum/showthread.php?t=51891

Regards the Imagery, I have to sit on the floor as I dont have tall enough stands for them !!! But it appears to be solid if a little "flat", but I can only compare them to my Kef 104/2's which have outstanding imagery (if a little "forward"
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proffski
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 29, 2008 6:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, at least the port on the back does to me look like the usual black painted straws...

Any chance of some photographs of the rear of units showing dates, model numbers etc?
Would be much appreciated.
Especially the early 'ATC'...
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