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Looking for Kube200 for my KEF 105/3
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zaktech
Junior Contributor 10+


Joined: 08 Oct 2012
Posts: 16
Location: Leeds, West Yorks, UK

PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 4:37 pm    Post subject: Looking for Kube200 for my KEF 105/3 Reply with quote

Hi,

I recently purchased a mint condition pair of KEF 105/3's here in the UK. They required bass driver refoaming (doughnut and surrounds) which I purchased from AudioFriends in NL. I speak Dutch so I am happy to translate any of their instructions for speaker refoaming, if needed. I took photos every step of the way with my repair so I am happy to assist anyone with such a job on these fine speakers.

I'm in need of a Kube 200 and I found schematics on the DIYAudio forum but that is a job probably beyond my skill set, so I'm looking to either buy a Kube 200 from someone or would buy a unit built by someone with quality components. Let me know if I can help you in any way PLEASE.

Cheers, Zak
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clubsport911
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Joined: 26 Aug 2012
Posts: 157
Location: Cheltenham, UK

PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 1:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Get @ the back of the queue

Laughing

Only Kidding !.. but I'm in the same boat as you.

But.... (and it's a big but).. I'm still undecided. The bass on the 105/3's IMHO seems "lean" compared to prior experience and intuition (big speaker... a massive port... 2 bass units etc). However a recent experience of cranking up the volume to more serious levels gave the sound a totally different balance.

I'm also toying with wiring in my (£££) AV Sub but initial experiments were not conclusive.

Speaker placement is key as is plenty of welly !

Perhaps with all this interest, someone "clever and in the know" could commission a rebuild of the KUBE - KUBE 2012 if you like !

All the best

Steve
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speakerguru
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Joined: 18 Nov 2005
Posts: 959
Location: Green Hut, Tovil

PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 2:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

clubsport911 wrote:
...However a recent experience of cranking up the volume to more serious levels gave the sound a totally different balance....

Check out the Fletcher-Munson curves of equal subjective loudness. That's why most car radios boost the bass at low volume steps.
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clubsport911
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Joined: 26 Aug 2012
Posts: 157
Location: Cheltenham, UK

PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 4:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Off topic alert... ! I recall a PM I sent to you on this... (did you get it ?)

When the Frequency Response of the KEF speakers were tested, what was the power setting ? 1w ? 10w ? If you increased the power to"N" did the frequency response change ?

If so.. by what to what ?
Are there curves ?

Was my imagination playing me up when I remarked that the speakers sounded better as they got louder ?

(BTW.,.. I'm not talking about ultra-low sound levels).

Anyhow... shouldn't you be in the garage redesigning the new KUBE 2012 that we're all going to buy from you ? Laughing Laughing
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clubsport911
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Joined: 26 Aug 2012
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Location: Cheltenham, UK

PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2012 2:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK, so I cannot find the KUBE's (or those that have them are hanging onto them)

So, given that they are like rocking horse manure, what about this

http://www.musicalfidelity.com/uploads/manuals/English/xtone.pdf

I realise that the boost is far from the amount of the KUBE but what impacts could it have ? It cannot hurt (surely)

Thanks
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Headrush
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Joined: 10 Nov 2012
Posts: 18
Location: Nottingham

PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2012 12:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's a very interesting looking device but a completely different animal to the KUBE 200. That MF appears to be more of a bass/treble tone control for various steps in frequency which looks a great idea but the KUBE actually (magically, mysteriously, I still can't figure it outously) lowers the frequency response down from 49Hz to 20Hz and from there you can add/subtract bass gain. Treble response is adjustable too as an added bonus.

I have one (queue smug grin) and it really does do what it says on the tin. It's amazingly versatile too, as it has no less than 3 outputs that can all be used together. One main fixed equalised output, one auxilary fixed straight output and an auxilary equalised output with a 6db +- gain. So it can effectively be used to great effect to bi-amp and tri-amp with the ability to balance everything out.

I use mine between a TVC passive and a power amp using the variable gain to give a bit of boost to the volume when the source is a bit quiet, like some Dire Straights recordings and I can choose to equalise or bypass the tone control. It really is worth hunting one down and I've seen prices vary between £60 and £350. I think it's a case of being in the right place at the right time. There's a pair of 105/3s on eBay right now that include the KUBE 200 starting at £695. Considering the silly money some people will pay for the KUBE 200 on it's own, someone is going to get a serious bargain.
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proffski
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Joined: 22 Aug 2003
Posts: 1297
Location: Tewkesbury UK

PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 1:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

clubsport911 wrote:
OK, so I cannot find the KUBE's (or those that have them are hanging onto them) So, given that they are like rocking horse manure, what about this http://www.musicalfidelity.com/uploads/manuals/English/xtone.pdf
I realise that the boost is far from the amount of the KUBE but what impacts could it have ? It cannot hurt (surely) Thanks


There may be salvation hiding here perhaps?
Link: http://www.minidsp.com/
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deckard
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Joined: 10 Sep 2012
Posts: 32

PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 12:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am keeping my eyes peeled for one as well, but I am not dissatisfied with the bass output. Of course, it would be nice if they went lower, but what the 105/3's accomplish is, I feel, extremely accurate. The bass does seem to gain more focus and slam with more power, but no matter what, they still won't do what a really good sub does (and I stress REALLY good, because few subs are fast and tight enough to mate properly and still sound musical).

The manual for the KUBE 200 says the LF contour provides up to 6dB boost on frequencies below 160Hz.

I'm sure it's more complicated than this, but aren't we really talking about something similar to a "bass" knob on a receiver?

If the LF part of the KUBE 200 is purely a boost (i.e., no "brains"), surely someone can reverse-engineer and/or build one using the schematics?
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proffski
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Joined: 22 Aug 2003
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Location: Tewkesbury UK

PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 1:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I totally agree, the loudspeaker in question is a meticulous transducer.

The Kube may well extend the bass but at the expense of dynamic headroom below certain frequencies.
A well designed SEALED subwoofer or even better subwoofers would offer a much greater gain in low end response, give some respite to the obviously overworked KEFs.
End result probably much better than augmentation of LF with Kube and at the expense of dynamic contrast.
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clubsport911
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Joined: 26 Aug 2012
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Location: Cheltenham, UK

PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 6:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Still no Kube here... But I had the great fortune to hook up with another 105/3 owner and he being a bass aficionado came to listen to my system. Over the course of a couple of hours listening to all sorts of program material he was convinced that the Kube was worth it....when bi-amped.

When run as intended, the midrange even with his best efforts suffered and I'm sorry, that's not for me. Of course, in his system he has Krell and Linn amps so has the chance to tune the gain of the bass section.

He commented that I would be thrilled with the Kube and when I plugged in my "down to 19hz" sub (admit we listened to the av system which is a poor match to the audio system) he said the 105/3'a would sound better!

Quite how that works, I do not know.

I'm really (especially since the new stuffing and re-sealing) loving my Kef 105/3's in my system. They offer a very clean and accurate bass so no complaints

Still toying on the whole Kube thing... Subs would be an option but all that faff just puts me off.

Good conversation
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proffski
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Joined: 22 Aug 2003
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Location: Tewkesbury UK

PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 7:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

clubsport911 wrote:
but all that faff just puts me off.
Good conversation


Smile At least it is not the other half putting the foot down! Surprised
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clubsport911
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Joined: 26 Aug 2012
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Location: Cheltenham, UK

PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 7:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Crikey no... She listens to the stereo much more than me and after 25 yrs of marriage, she has endured all sorts of kit and kaboodle.

We've tried heaps of kit at home and whilst she is the director of operations and logistics, would be only too pleased for more sounds !

I'm actually glad she likes music because it really reduces the time I have to kit that is not run in ! (The new foams on my speakers took a few days !)

Love it
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zaktech
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Joined: 08 Oct 2012
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Location: Leeds, West Yorks, UK

PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 11:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Steve, its me Zak. I started this thread when I started my search for the Kube a few weeks ago. As you know I've found a few since and I've figured out the power supply as well, since a few folks out there have them without power supplies. Well I can help solve that problem now.

As for the Kube200, I can't tell you much about how it works, all I can say is that its amazing. I've had many systems over the years and heard many, many speakers but nothing I've heard comes close to the 105/3 with the Kube200. I would not keep these without the Kube. They sound good but I was always longing for the sub 30Hz frequency. Without it I would probably switch to PMC OB1i speakers.

The Kube cabled through the tape loop on an integrated amp, or between the pre and a single power amp, it still sounds great. As I said, if I send you my Kube, you would never return it, never. I'm positive. Bi-amplification makes it a bit better, for sure. Even with two dissimilar amplifiers, like my Krell 400xi driving mid and HF, and the less powerful Linn LK280 driving the LF drivers. It's because the Kube has a fixed or variable output, so I can adjust the gain. This facility is not available when using the device through the tape loop, but its designed with gain adjuster for the very scenario I have, bi amplification with different amplifiers. I will try two LK280s soon and two 400xi amps once I find another for sale at a good price. I think the ideal would be a pre and four mono blocks, so I'm keeping an eye out for Meridian 205s, four of them.

My 105/3s are absolutely standard/original and in mint condition, in a light shade of walnut. I may try the capacitor renewal Wilmslow Audio suggested to you, but I'm tempted to leave them as is since I cannot tell you how happy I am with these speakers. The only work I did on them is the bass driver refoaming, surrounds and doughnut dust caps.

Get a Kube and you will keep these reference 105/3s forever.
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speakerguru
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Joined: 18 Nov 2005
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Location: Green Hut, Tovil

PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 9:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a couple of spare power supplies. PM me if you're interested.

Also, if there really is enough interest and KUBE200s are that hard to get get hold of, I could re-create the pcb design and make them available in some form or other. I don't want to get involved with procuring parts or metalwork, though.
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speakerguru
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 12:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Turns out the two PSUs I have are US ones! Embarassed

Sorry for getting anyone's hopes up.
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