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There's a Newbie in the house ! With Concerto's...

 
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Motorcycle Boy
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Joined: 13 Dec 2005
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2005 11:39 am    Post subject: There's a Newbie in the house ! With Concerto's... Reply with quote

Hi !

Me Belgian, you Jane? Very Happy

Ow, sorry, that was meant for another kind of forum. Shocked

So, hello again !

Last week I inherited a pair of KEF Concerto's. My father owned them for about 30 years and decided to get rid of them when refurbishing the living room. Their Women Acceptance Factor had gotten too low....

I connected them immediately to my own system at home. And was baffled immediately. The low was PRESENT, the high was PURE. Very intense sensation ! Shocked ( I tested it with Leftfield and Stabat Mater. Cool )

FWIW, I compare them with a pair of Castle Harlech S2.

But ! I noticed that they had lots of difficulty with complex passages, whether in electronic music or symphonic orchestras. When playing complex music, the music got quite trouble. Voilins started floating, nuances got lost, detail was gone. What happens? Drive-units fatigue? Filters dried out?

Should I replace the filters with Wilmslow's? Should I replace the drive units? Everything looks immaculate.

FYI: a few years ago I had noticed that the dome of the tweeters had been "pushed" in, you know, as if someone had pushed pits in it with their index.... but I could easily "suck" them out again.....

Any advice is welcome !

Paul
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ColinR
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Location: Staffordshire

PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2005 11:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Morning Very Happy , a few simple ideas, get a transistor radio and one of those nasty earpieces.

Cut the thing you stick in your ear off and bare the wires back.

Remove a crossover board and test the individual drive units with the radio by connecting to the tangs on the multiway connector. the sequence is (if the labels gone), i/p+, i/p-, hf-, hf+, mf+, mf-, lf-, lf+.

The capacitors have probably dried out so consider either recapping or buying a 6 or 33 crossover from Falcon Acoustics, as the circuit board is designed to fit into KEF's multiway connectors.

To suck the domes out use the cardboard tube out of a kitchen roll or the like.
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Motorcycle Boy
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2005 12:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ColinR wrote:
Morning Very Happy , a few simple ideas, get a transistor radio and one of those nasty earpieces.

Cut the thing you stick in your ear off and bare the wires back.

Remove a crossover board and test the individual drive units with the radio by connecting to the tangs on the multiway connector. the sequence is (if the labels gone), i/p+, i/p-, hf-, hf+, mf+, mf-, lf-, lf+.

The capacitors have probably dried out so consider either recapping or buying a 6 or 33 crossover from Falcon Acoustics, as the circuit board is designed to fit into KEF's multiway connectors.

To suck the domes out use the cardboard tube out of a kitchen roll or the like.


Ha! Someone else is allready alive!

A few questions/remarks:
1) what should I hear/notice when playing with the radio? Where should I listen to?

2) what is recapping?

3) I'm trying to make out the info and products that Falcon Acoustics offer. Confused But it is really really difficult. I think their site is a pricewinner in the competion "less comprehensible site in the world" Shocked

I don't think the 33 is for me, my amp is 2x60w RMS. But I doubt that the 6 is for me too, as it is made for four drivers! My concerto's don't have the 4001G.
But what I can't understand is if these are just components, are ready-to-use cross-over filters.
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ColinR
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2005 2:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
1) what should I hear/notice when playing with the radio? Where should I listen to?
As a transistor radio has limited power and bandwidth, chose any source of complex musical signal and female voice and check for any distortion.
Quote:
2) what is recapping?
Changing the capacitors for new ones Laughing .
Quote:
3) I'm trying to make out the info and products that Falcon Acoustics offer. But it is really really difficult. I think their site is a pricewinner in the competion "less comprehensible site in the world"
You want a 6c or 33c and they're ready to go units, remove the screws and remove the old units and slot the new ones straight in.

If you're in any doubt I suggest you pm Wouter in Ramsel, he also has a pair of old Conceto's Very Happy .
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Motorcycle Boy
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2005 10:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="ColinR"]
Quote:


If you're in any doubt I suggest you pm Wouter in Ramsel, he also has a pair of old Conceto's Very Happy .


And yes, we made contact! Very Happy Virtually, that is. Cool It feels good to be in the same timezone, and for sure communicating in the same mothers tongue..... Very Happy


Other question:

What explains the difference in price between the Falcon's 6c costing £ 48.60 (with or without VAT? per pair, incl upgrade) and the Wilmslow's costing £ 114.90 (excl. VAT, single wired, per pair)?????
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ColinR
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2005 11:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
What explains the difference in price between the Falcon's 6c costing £ 48.60 (with or without VAT? per pair, incl upgrade) and the Wilmslow's costing £ 114.90 (excl. VAT, single wired, per pair)?????


All the Falcon offering(s) includes VAT.

The Falcon board is 6.5"*2.5" and will fit the existing connector.

The Wilmslow board is 8"*5" so will have to be installed inside the cabinet.

The Wilmslow offering is an interpretation of the original KEF CAD/IMP design, it's similar to the £102inc Falcon 53, not the 33c or 6c.

Price differences are probably due to marketing, profile and return on sales.

You have a pm.


Last edited by ColinR on Wed Dec 14, 2005 12:41 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Motorcycle Boy
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2005 11:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

thank you ColinR! Wink
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Wouter
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Joined: 18 Jun 2004
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Location: Ramsel (Belgium)

PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2005 6:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Colin,

Apparently they both still use electrolytic capacitors and ferrite coils.
I always thought that this is the lowest quality for this kind of filters. For the bass section, I understand that MKP and air coils are much too big and expensive. But for the smaller components the price and volume difference is not really that big...
My filters (DN12 spec with air coils and MKP, except for the base section) has cost about 100pnds. Without PCB off course.


All the best,
Wouter
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ColinR
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2005 8:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Perhaps one year Santa will bring me a large box of air-cores like these "man-sized" items to play with Very Happy.


http://www.t-linespeakers.org/classics/friedH/fried_H.html

Bottom right hand photograph Cool .
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Wouter
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2005 8:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Indeed, that's the reason why I didn't use an air cored coil for the bass section....
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proffski
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 15, 2005 1:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey guys!
Remember that some network designs take the DC R of the coil into account.
A well designed ferrite core should not saturate, but if in doubt go for laminated iron. Have fun!
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proffski
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 15, 2005 1:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gosh Colin, nice paper weights! Wink
Thank you for the link.
You could always wind your own inductors...

ColinR wrote:
Perhaps one year Santa will bring me a large box of air-cores like these "man-sized" items to play with Very Happy.


http://www.t-linespeakers.org/classics/friedH/fried_H.html

Bottom right hand photograph Cool .
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Motorcycle Boy
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2012 11:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi all !

I'm back ! Very Happy

I still got the concerto's but I haven't used them for years because the upgrade to the Falcon Acoustic 6c model didn't help very much. It helped of course, but the mid still got muddy. To be honest I don't know what to do now. My wife says to sell them, but I think it's a shame.

Now, any idea how I could try to improve the sound? Perhaps I need to "modernize" them, with completely new drive units and filters?

Any suggestions are welcome !

oh yeah, I've got some pictures of the changes I did;

New cable clamps:

New cables:

New crossover filter, hidden in the cabinet because it was too large for the original location.

Just a general look.


Ah, and I did buy a 2ndhand T27 to replace the broken one.
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ColinR
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 4:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You have an email Confused .
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