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KEF C80 Bass issue
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golanr
Junior Contributor 10+


Joined: 06 Jan 2012
Posts: 17
Location: Chesterfield, MO USA

PostPosted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 5:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Richie,
Next time you are in St. Louis, Missouri, feel free to stop by for a demo of my system with all possible combinations.
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proffski
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Joined: 22 Aug 2003
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Location: Tewkesbury UK

PostPosted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 8:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

golanr wrote:
My problem is that I could hear the bass but not feel it. Maybe it's the boxes that are not big enough for the B139, maybe it's my room but it just did not work for me. The addition of the Sub simply made the sound complete for me, especially when listening to classical music.
I use really low volume on the Sub and cut it at 80hz.

I still have the 104aB connected and I change to them with a simple press of a button on the Pre-amp. Indeed there are some genre that sound better so I can enjoy the best of both worlds Very Happy


Same observation, although the bass from the KEF Concerto could be felt it in my opinion was as not as true to life as from the C80. But in those years I did not care!
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Richie
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Joined: 06 Nov 2010
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Location: Northamptonshire

PostPosted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 5:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thats quite a spread of gear you have/had Proffie, I'm sure you have some favourites amongst them Smile

Thanks for the invite Golanr, next time I'm in the U S Obama I'll drop in Smile
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proffski
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 5:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Richie wrote:
Thats quite a spread of gear you have/had Proffie, I'm sure you have some favourites amongst them Smile


They were all favourites, some had strength over others and vice versa.
If only I had a larger house... There is no such thing as a perfect loudspeaker to suit all tastes.

I've also had many speakers on loan myself, the Tanny Arden's were breathtaking, not perfect but with the Amcron... WOW!
I still have some stuff in the loft, and in the workshop last month I found the KEF Kube for the 107s!!! Totally forgot that I had it hidden away.
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Richie
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Location: Northamptonshire

PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 3:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Proffi I see you had some IMF TLS50's, there is a pair on flea-bay now that I fancy, a mk 2 version, are they as good as leg-end has it ?
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proffski
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 6:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Richie wrote:
Proffi I see you had some IMF TLS50's, there is a pair on flea-bay now that I fancy, a mk 2 version, are they as good as leg-end has it ?


Overall eventually I grew to love them.
1st impressions were that there was little bass till I heard some real stuff on a great recording of "Saint-SaŽns Organ Symphony No.3".

Imaging which to me when I'm in acute listening mode is very important was never as good as say the 104aB or others.
Until I was involved in building some monsters using the B139 and Decca Kelly ribbon with B110s I was happy enough.

I think it important that any purchase of an ageing classic such as this makes listening absolutely essential, and some people never seem to get to like TL / Labyrynth bass.. they do look gorgeous though!
May still need some TLC.
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rx7rotary
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 7:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Deffinitly a brilliant speaker tls50, never owned but managed to listen , many times...

i own tls80 and imf domestic monitors, which are a lot bigger again, and are my favorite speaker of all my collection.

It is the only speaker that I feel is not reproducing a coloured sound. Very linear characteristics in my opinion.

Mark
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Richie
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 8:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

proffski wrote:
Richie wrote:
Proffi I see you had some IMF TLS50's, there is a pair on flea-bay now that I fancy, a mk 2 version, are they as good as leg-end has it ?



1st impressions were that there was little bass till I heard some real stuff on a great recording of "Saint-SaŽns Organ Symphony No.3".


Thanks guys, a bit surprised by your 1st impressions Proffi as I thought deep, clean articulated bass were what these are all about ?
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proffski
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 10:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For that go for a well designed and large I.B. enclosure.

Do not get me wrong, I have heard some mind blowing "TLs" and the current PMC range are a prime example.

For reflex the ATC range and Spendor seem to break the laws of physics. But as I have mentioned on here in the past, the best bass if not necessarily the deepest came from the B&W DM70s!
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golanr
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Location: Chesterfield, MO USA

PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2012 3:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

proffski,
Thanks to your tip, I went ahead and bought today the SAINT-SAENS: Symphony No. 3 / Le Rouet d'Omphale by Czech Radio Symphony Orchestra (Bratislava).

I have new admiration for my KEF C80/Klipsch combination, those are some tough Organ parts there.

I am glad I am part of this community Very Happy
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proffski
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2012 5:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The venue is all important as the acoustic signature for organ needs to have a longer delay than for other instruments.
The best recording I have is on LP and was sold on the cheap MFP label!

I have recordings of huge organs in small buildings and they sound poor.

The sonority of the organ is preserved with long reverb time which decays away slowly.

Some recordings used an organ at different venue to the orchestra with the two linked by radio.

Anyway, I congratulate you on finding a recording 1st time which pleased you, a rare find! Smile

If you really want to plumb the depths of the C80s please try...
BoŽllmann. Suite Gothique Op. 25: Introduction-Choral, Menuet and Toccata.
It is the Toccata you want, very satanic and you almost expect Beelzebub himself to appear at the organ.
My best recording is on an old Philips transcription.
If only all organs had 64 foot pipes!!! Shocked

Needs a big organ ina big venue and a class organist.
Organs need to breathe just like TLs, shed recordings do not do justice.
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audiolabtower
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2012 6:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My favourite recording of Saint Saens 3 is the old Decca by Charles Dutoit and the Montreal Symphony from 1982, the organ impact on this is second to none, all within a very realistic and natural acoustic space. I believe Deccas of this era were done on a few channels and mixed down to stereo perfectly, missing all the phase problems with large close-multi-miked recordings created in the mixer with added electronic reverb, thus giving a wonderfully natural stereo image.
Second choice is between original DG Berlin Philharmonic/James Levine from 1986 which got the best artistic reviews (fabulous playing in the fast sections) and the DG Orchestre de l'Opera Bastille/Myung-Whun Chung from 1991, one of their 4D recordings with A/D converters direct at the microphones, (with organ of Notre Dame). I also have the Chandos Ulster Orchestra/Yan pascal Tortelier with the famous Gillian Weir playing the organ, this is quite bright in the Chandos fashion but with low fatigue. I have no idea which versions are still available now Sad
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audiolabtower
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2012 6:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

proffski wrote:
very satanic and you almost expect Beelzebub himself to appear at the organ


In that case try Vaughan Williams; Job: A Masque for Dancing, particularly the old award winning CFP version by Vernon Handley and the LPO from 1983. Half way through the organ comes in for the first time in a truly terrifying crescendo because it actually is representing Satan himself!
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Richie
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Location: Northamptonshire

PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2012 5:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

proffski wrote:
For that go for a well designed and large I.B. enclosure.

Do not get me wrong, I have heard some mind blowing "TLs" and the current PMC range are a prime example.

For reflex the ATC range and Spendor seem to break the laws of physics. But as I have mentioned on here in the past, the best bass if not necessarily the deepest came from the B&W DM70s!


How about these !

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Lentek-Monitor-Transmission-Line-Speakers-KEF-B110-T27-B139-HF2000-IMF-TDL-/190648156615?pt=UK_AudioVideoElectronics_HomeAudioHiFi_HiFiSpeakers&hash=item2c638401c7#ht_6525wt_987

Either he's a very small man or those are very big speakers !!

Would love to hear them.
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golanr
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 12:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, I am happy to report an interesting happy ending.
Following a purchase of a pair of 105.2, the C80 moved upstairs to the living room. (Without the Subwoofer)
Room is much bigger, with vaulted ceiling and the C80 are in the corners.

Amazingly, the bass which was gone in the other room, came back. Deep, round and perfect. The mid is still very pronounced, but it does not bother the ear anymore as the balance between the elements is perfect. Patricia Barber and Eva Cassidy never sounded better.
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