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Difference between Kef 104AB and Calindas ?
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suffolk2
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Joined: 30 Dec 2006
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Location: Suffolk,England

PostPosted: Sun Dec 31, 2006 10:35 am    Post subject: Difference between Kef 104AB and Calindas ? Reply with quote

anyone ?

I believe they also have the same drive units from what i
can see, but need expert advice from people who know.

and differences with the xovers if there is any ?

thks
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ColinR
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 31, 2006 4:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not a lot Cool .

Both use the same acoustic Butterworth treble section.

Both use medium Q bass/midrange units.

The difference is more historical, the SP1039 and Ref 104 is basically a slide-rule and log tables design, to which the computerised 104aB crossover was later added.
The SP1054 like the Calinda crossover are both computerised designs.

The crossover schematics are lurking on the web site in the Technical Section and the link to www.t-linespeakers.org will take you to where the specifications of both bass/midrange drive units live.
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suffolk2
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2007 12:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

so what would a Kef 104AB xover sound like driving the calindas ?
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speakerguru
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2007 12:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The SP1039 is a short coil in a long (axially) gap and the SP1054 is a long coil in a short gap. The two woofers therefore have different non-linear behaviour if you drive them into high excursion regions. The short coil long gap will have lower distortion at low to moderate levels.

As for swapping xos......why? Xos were designed to produce a specific response on a specified listening axis using specific drivers in specific cabinets. If you swap around you have no way of knowing what you'll end up with and if you're unlucky you may even get a low impedance combination which triggers your amp into current limiting.
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suffolk2
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2007 11:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

it all sounds too technical for me !! i am just asking a novice question.

what are the name/model of the drive units used in the calindas ?

also what are the name/model of the ones in the wireless world kefkit ?
[ is this kefkit 3 constructor series ? ]

as I have no idea what they are.

thanks
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speakerguru
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2007 1:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

B200 SP1039 is the woofer used in the Model 104 and 104 aB

B200 SP1054 is the woofer used in the Calinda

Both 104s and the Calinda used a T27 SP1032 tweeter.

I've never heard of a "wireless world kefkit". Maybe Wilmslow at one time sold kits of the Bailey design, published in WW using KEF units, under this name?
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suffolk2
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2007 8:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

speakerguru wrote:
B200 SP1039 is the woofer used in the Model 104 and 104 aB

B200 SP1054 is the woofer used in the Calinda

Both 104s and the Calinda used a T27 SP1032 tweeter.

I've never heard of a "wireless world kefkit". Maybe Wilmslow at one time sold kits of the Bailey design, published in WW using KEF units, under this name?


thanks , now i know Wink

the spkr i have is this one
http://www.hifiloudspeakers.info/Anatomy/Articles/ArticlesGallery/Bailey/BaileyWWW1972/index.htm, so is this a wilmslow audio constructor series ? The chap I bought it from said he bulit them with the aid of his
friend who knows about crossovers etc.

whatever it is, i am pretty impressed with the sound, i find myself
listening to this than my regular Rega Xel.
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ColinR
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2007 10:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Back in the early 80's when the three original partners were involved with Wilmslow Audio there was a range of ready cut chipboard/mdf boxes available as "total kits" along with drive units, crossovers and damping material.
They did do a few TL kits for some "high value" customers who were prepared to wait.
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suffolk2
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2007 11:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

advice needed !!

i have just noticed that one of my calinda sounds duller than the other.

serial no 5320 sounds ok / serial no 6571 sounds duller [ both drive units ]

i thought it was the dirt so i cleaned the spkr sockets with head cleaner
solution and cotton wool buds - which seem to help.

i have also swap the spkr channels over, no difference.

any suggestions ? thks
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proffski
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2007 4:49 pm    Post subject: No HF? Reply with quote

Could be a blown tweeter or a component in the crossover high pass section.
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suffolk2
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2007 3:42 pm    Post subject: Re: No HF? Reply with quote

proffski wrote:
Could be a blown tweeter or a component in the crossover high pass section.


i've put my ears close up and its both the tweeter + mid that sounds
dull - so prob xover at fault. - sounds technical ! wouldnt know where
to look [ all i know is resistors are the small things and capacitors are
the cylindrical things Laughing ]

on general listening, both spkrs dont appear to be imbalanced by much,
still heard the stereo imaging. so not too worried at the mo so long as
it doesnt rattle and pop Very Happy

thks
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ColinR
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2007 11:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm afraid you're going to educate yourself up to "A-level" Physics standard with respect to capacitors and coils if you want to know how crossovers operate.

Learn how to solder or "find a friend" to re-cap your crossovers, as yours seem well past their "sell-by" date.

Old electrolytics tend to take on more resistive characteristics with age, so speakers will always work whatever their age, they just sound progressively duller over time.
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proffski
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2007 1:50 am    Post subject: ESR Reply with quote

I could not agree more.
Measuring the effective capacitance or the ESR of the capacitors would be a waste of time after the years of service they have given.
Replace at least with the best you can afford in the so called Non Polarised variety or even go for non electrolytic values in the smaller ones. The particular crossover in question does not use a plethora of capacitors so replacement should not prove too expensive at all. Be prepared for a change in tonal characteristics to some degree however!
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suffolk2
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2007 11:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thank you both for your contribution, i found it very educational.

now if i were to attempt this modernisation, can you tell me what
items i need for the xovers [ pcb/capacitors/resistors ]- a shopping
list would help.

i have done some diy before with changing spkr units / building
the the bbc kefkit.

i have always had an obbession with speakers, since i was a knee
high grasshopper Very Happy

btw how do i learn about building xovers?any books or internet links ?

thks
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centaurus
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2007 2:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

don't freak out Very Happy

just look at Colin's schematic and buy all the caps listed. get the resistors too if you like (just in case).

first things first though. GENTLY depress the B200. is there any dragging? or does it move freely. CAREFULLY remove the tweeters and clip (or desolder the leads to the drivers) hook up the tweeters directly to your amp to make sure they sound good, don't distort and have equal output. this removes the crossover from the equation. do this with the B200 as well, if you like.

as far as caps, just go to partsexpress or madisound. get either solen or jantzen. good affordable caps. don't go ape shit on esoteric audio caps bathed in amazon virgin juices Wink they might sound better, but a total rip-off. solens and jantzen will work just fine. as for resistors, go to mouser or digikey if you can't find the right stuff from the aforementioned sites. just get 5% resistors and you'll be fine. 1% mills if you are feeling extra saucy.

you don't even have to put the resistors in if you don't want right now. but, they are so cheap, that you might as well only pay for shipping once. even if you never use them.

main thing. hook the raw drivers up directly to your amp to make sure they work fine and that it is indeed a crossover issue.

CALINDAS ROCK!!!

see ya,
Robby
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