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Difference Cambridge R50 and TL200
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Eric Raven
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Joined: 18 Sep 2009
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2009 9:10 am    Post subject: Difference Cambridge R50 and TL200 Reply with quote

Hi everybody,

This is my first post and I wanted to join Speakertalk as I'm very interested in early Kef speakers and speakers that uses Kef units.
I'n now 29 years old and I grew up with the sound of my fathers' Ferrograph S1 monitors. The overall sound was great and the bass (Kef B139 SP1044) was phenomenal.

Now, a buddy recently bought a pair of Cambridge R50's and I bought a pair of Cambridge TL200's. They both have the same measurements and (as far as I can tell) the share the same units:

- Kef B139B SP1044
- Kef B110A
- Kef T27
- Coles 4001G

Is it true that the only difference between these two speakers is the power measurement (25Watt and 50Watt)?
And secondly, my buddy and myself are using a Luxman LV-112 amplifier for these speakers. Is that sufficient or do you recommend a tube amplifier?

Thanks!
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ColinR
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Joined: 31 Jul 2004
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Location: Staffordshire

PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2009 11:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

YES!

From the "Cambridge Audio TL 200" thread.

Quote:
The only major difference between your model and my R50s from Cambridge Audio’s Reception is higher powered inductors in the bass section compared to the original crossover.

I would recommend that you join http://groups.google.com/group/vintage-cambridge-audio.


Only if you have anything meaningful to contribute though.
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Eric Raven
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Joined: 18 Sep 2009
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2009 1:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Colin,

That's a clear answer Wink

Strange though that almost nothing can be found on the internet about the Cambridge TL200's.

Although the capacitors have been replaced this year, do you have any idea which are the best filters today? I'm thinking about refurbishing the TL200's with a more "modern" sound if even possible. The Luxman amplifier attached is not that old (I believe it is from the year 1992 or so.

Thanks!

Eric.
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ColinR
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2009 1:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very Happy

Here we have Andrew and Henry of KEF to put us "normal collector types" right from time to time Cool .

The Cambridge Google Group just has Stan Curtis Cool .

So you won't find anything on the TL200 apart from other owners or old marketing material if you find the right junkshop.

To tweak the R50/TL200 design the un-named 18dB/octave AUSKEF/Falcon type 53 should be employed.

The 53 is a CS7 using B110A and T27.

Apparently done by KEF at the behest of the (rather unhappy at the time) Australian distributor.

On two PCBs, with a third for the 0.3mH/0.47uF it will fit in the R50/TL200.

The Wilmslow offering is too large and does not take account of bass inductor leakage.
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TL 200
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Joined: 27 Jul 2009
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Location: Emmer-Compascuum The Netherlands

PostPosted: Sun Sep 27, 2009 11:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very nice to see that another pair of TL 200's are back to be used for what they were made for: Listening Very Happy
Congratulations. And please be carefull with them, they really deserve it.
Greets, TL 200
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Eric Raven
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Joined: 18 Sep 2009
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 10:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I purchased these speakers about a week ago, so I did not test them very well. I thought they contained the B139B SP1044 bass units, but the units are Kef B139A SP6171. Not really sure what the exact difference is (except the looks).

But anyway, I did test them now Wink They sound great, however one of the supertweeters (4001G) seems to be a bit demped. It does not sound as "open" as the other one. I will test this futher, but when it is broken, what is a good replacement for these supertweeters?

Another thing. My buddy has a pair of Cambridge R50's (mine are TL200's).
One of the bass drivers is damaged Sad The units are Kef B139A SP6171. When we create a new board, is it possible to replace the units by Kef B139B SP1044? We have a set of these, but will the cross-over need to be adapted?

Thanks!
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ColinR
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 10:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
thought they contained the B139B SP1044 bass units, but the units are Kef B139A SP6171.


You've been had, the A6171 wasn't in production therefore the bass units should be the less statistically variable SP1044.
Remember self adhesive labels can be moved.
Although you can carefully route out a A6171 cut out over a SP1044 hole.
If the dates codes don't match I bet the crossover's "wrong" too.

Quote:
what is a good replacement for these supertweeters


Another Coles 4001G otherwise you'll have to redesign the crossover, or
Tonigen "Raven" Ribbons if you've just won the lottery Very Happy .


Quote:
mine are TL200's


Don't think so, maybe more of a "marriage" than ringer.
Date codes for the B110As and T27s are required to confirm authenticity.


Quote:
One of the bass drivers is damaged The units are Kef B139A SP6171. When we create a new board, is it possible to replace the units by Kef B139B SP1044? We have a set of these, but will the cross-over need to be adapted


1. Yes.
2. No.
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Eric Raven
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 11:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
the A6171 wasn't in production therefore the bass units should be the less statistically variable SP1044


Huh? I thought the SP6171 is older than the SP1044? Also I see that other Cambridges like the one on the website (http://groups.google.com/group/vintage-cambridge-audio) also has SP6171'es.

Quote:
Date codes for the B110As and T27s are required to confirm authenticity.


Ok, what does the age of the units prove? What dates should be written?
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ColinR
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 1:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I thought the SP6171 is older than the SP1044


That's why you shouldn't find them in TL200s.



Quote:
what does the age of the units prove? What dates should be written



Whether the label TL200 is kosher or not.

Any circa 1978 i.e. late 1977 to early 1979.


The cabinets should be covered in Vynair/Rexene, Formica finishes will only be found in older A6171 endowed R50s and R40s.
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Eric Raven
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 3:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ah, I understand Wink thanks Colin!

I did not know the TL200 version was newer than the R50. Yes, it's always possible that the covers have been replaced by ones of a TL200. I will check the dates on the units and let you know.

One last thing, do you recommend a tube amplifier? I now have an older Luxman amplifier, but I am a bit disappointed about the low frequency. The speakers do not feel as warm as they did at the previous owner. He used a very small tube amplifier.
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ColinR
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 7:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
an older Luxman amplifier, but I am a bit disappointed


With Luxman you want something like a L-308, newer animals are a bit cold sounding.

Light bulbs should be of the highest quality, Radford, Leak Stereo 40, John Howes Quad IIs, rebuilt Beards, etc.

A group of us (8+) use Quad 606s to drive our "stock" TLs, although rebuilt Crowns (216W per channel) can be used with care after the crossovers have been uprated Cool .

I prefer a high damping factor for good bass, but whatever floats your boat Very Happy .
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TL 200
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Location: Emmer-Compascuum The Netherlands

PostPosted: Thu Oct 01, 2009 4:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am very satisfied with my Cyrus II amplifier with the PSX external power supplie.
It's a fast amp, enough power (2x 70 real watts), damping factor 100 and enough reserves. PSX has a total PS capability : Typically 0.1 Farad!
My TL 200's are sounding very musically with enough (that's a lot) low frequencies, but never too much. That is, if they are placed right, transmission lines are more position-sensitive then closed cabinets.
BTW. i use Monster speakercable.
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speakerguru
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2009 6:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pedantic note. :

There's no such thing as an "SP6171". Laughing It would be a "6171" (no SP). SPXXXX numbers were copied from Celestion and introduced to the KEF drawing office when Laurie Fincham moved from Rola-Celestion to become Technical Director at KEF.
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Eric Raven
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2009 12:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
TL200: That is, if they are placed right, transmission lines are more position-sensitive then closed cabinets.

Ok, what do you recommend how to place the speakers? I have each of them placed in a corner with 30cm space between the wall and the speakers.

Quote:
ColinR: with Luxman you want something like a L-308, newer animals are a bit cold sounding.

Light bulbs should be of the highest quality, Radford, Leak Stereo 40, John Howes Quad IIs, rebuilt Beards, etc.

I have placed an offer on a Leak Stereo 60. Is that comparable with the Stereo 40?

Quote:
speakerguru: There's no such thing as an "SP6171"

I am still puzzled about the difference in sound between the "6171" Wink and the SP1044. Can you tell me this? My father has a set of TL Ferrograph S1 monitors containing SP1044. His low frequency output sounds better than mine. We use the same amplifier at the moment (Luxman LV-112). I cannot get the same low frequency out of my Cambridge TL200 nor my friends Cambridge R50.
Could this be because of the difference of the woofers?
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ColinR
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2009 1:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Leak Stereo 60. Is that comparable with the Stereo 40


It's just another EL34 design giving 30 Watts per channel instead of 20.


Quote:
am still puzzled about the difference in sound between the "6171" and the SP1044. Can you tell me this? My father has a set of TL Ferrograph S1 monitors containing SP1044. His low frequency output sounds better than mine. We use the same amplifier at the moment (Luxman LV-112). I cannot get the same low frequency out of my Cambridge TL200 nor my friends Cambridge R50.
Could this be because of the difference of the woofers?


They should sound the same, but as I said above

Quote:
the less statistically variable SP1044


you might just have a duff quartet of A6171s between you.

I've got both a "new" pair of R40s with SP1044 and an "older" pair with A6171 (not officially part of the collection but being a soft touch I spent £32 to save them from a speaker stripper), both will rattle the house as they've never been abused.

Cooked voice coils do affect the sound, so try and find a good pair of bass units.
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